Protestants and Catholics use the same scripture verse to justify their perspective authority.
Matthew 16:18 – And I Say Also Unto Thee, That Thou Art Peter, And Upon This Rock I Will Build My Church; And The Gates Of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It.
- Protestants use it to be free of any earth bound authority
- Catholics to be governed under a single earthy Vicar of Christ
Protestants claim that verse alone is a pretext, and that the context of the previous verses are necessary to clarify it.
Matthew 16:16 – And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matthew 16:17 – And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Which means that the recognition of Jesus as the Son of God is how they obtain the authority as bestowed by Jesus to anyone who recognizes and confesses the same.
Jesus often spoke in parables:
Matthew 13:13 – Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And He was commanded what to say:
John 12:49 – For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
If the word commandment in the verse above is taken as a direct object, then speak becomes a transitive verb, it may then mean express or communicate more than whats spoken, an image intended for the mind, it changes what might at first appear to be redundant speech.
…what I should say, and what I should speak.
Was Peters revelation of Jesus being the Son of God the rock, and a parable?
I don’t think that is even in play. For both sects. Believe in the same thing Jesus being the author and finisher of our faith . Heb.10:12 and that the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23.
Protestants dont dwell on the work of sin remittance because Jesus paid the sacrifice one time Heb.1:3 and then sat down.
Work being completed.
Once a person accepts Jesus as Lord . The Holy Spirit indwells. The spirit regenerated and renewed in Christ Jesus .
Although we are understandably religated to reside in these carnal bodies which are tempted to sin by our own doings. For God does not temp. When we sin in this flesh we have a Faithful High Preist . He perfected us forever. There is no more offering for sin. Hebrews 10:10-18
We can go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness as he is faithful to forgive. 1 John 1:9
But rest assured it isnt this sinful flesh he is coming back for . It is that renewed regenerated Spirit housed within it .
We were originally created to live forever. But when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden the allowed sin to enter in which allowed death to reign in their bodies and thus seperating Man from God causing the great rift of sin in man which only Jesus was able to correct.
That correction brought about the ability of man who are saved to now talk to Jesus one on one with out a earthy high preist for our High Priest resides in heaven .Heb. 10:19-21 we can go boldly in by ourselves to Christ through a new and living way through the veil .
So you see each and every Christian already has a High Priest in Jesus and can ar any time seek direct contact with Jesus in prayer for forgiveness of our each ,individual sins.
I wouldnt no more ask a priest to forgive me of my sins as I would a man on the street because there is only one High Priest Jesus.
My question to the article would be this .
Why do Catholics believe that they need someone else to go to Jesus and ask him to forgive that person. When you can just do it yourself. ??
All a very good reply, your last question:
Referring as I understand your question to our using priests in confessional.
I’m going to combine a few responses
The first is
Note how James 5:16 combines with the Centurions faith … but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed., which is said at every Catholic Mass, and Matthew 8:13
…as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
The third is also in my post
But how they differ is the crux of the thread and goes to authority, if there is no authority bestowed upon Peter then Protestants can do all those things individually as Priests themselves.
If you accept that preaching, listen very carefully to it, as I connected it in my post as well, listen to it, as Luther and others promise it, listen to how similar it sounds to this
That promise from Satan is what separated:
And it is being repeated again:
So, in short, to answer
It is due to faith, we believe that Church authority was bestowed upon Peter,
The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Everything you wrote is good, I like it, but it still does not line up with
That is in play.
Popes are not perfect, neither was Peter, read it again
How do you get past that?
Maybe you just need to flip your thinking, Jesus said we are all servants, and the greatest is the least, maybe look at the Pope as the greatest servant, what does your subjecting yourself to him make you?
Consider also this,
Does God want Satan causing His creation to be as Gods if He is a jealous God?
Would He consume those of His choosing who followed Satan rather than submitted to His Son?
If His Son left His authority to Peter as Pope and you reject that, eat the fruit the devil has provided…
Then can you doubt this is true?
Speaking of ignored verses and prophets…He isn’t speaking to us. But you aren’t wrong about the moral depravity of this country. It is why atheism is part of Marxism. You can’t do what they say to do unless you are without God.
edit: The Nazis at Gab don’t like these either.
There’s certainly no intent to ignore verses, yours as posted were for a time, now is a different time
But please, lets not turn from the question of how you ignore Romans 13 and the fact there has been a Pope for 2k years, they’ve been chased out, down and underground, to the point it almost appeared prevailed against… almost.
I must say, my entering the RCC was assisted in my desire to obtain an annulment, to not leave room for adultery, that desire required an act of submission, I could not ask the Church for it and not believe it had the authority to perform it. (bind on earth as bound in heaven)
That’s where faith comes in, for anything the Church does, you must believe it has the power to do.
And what is faith?
Right, it’s the dispensation of grace given to Paul for us. To drive Israel to jealousy.
Israel for those that don’t know was split into Judah and Israel. They are to be restored and the Son of David will rule from Jerusalem. You, and many others, keep posting those things for Israel that are not for us. The “protestants” are often just as guilty.
Continue the discussion at forum.full30.com
22 more replies